Game 1 - Joel w/ Butcher3 - Destruction
Butcher Unleashed (*4pts)* Beast-09 (11pts)
* War dog (1pts)
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (Cylena and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
Iron Fang Pikemen (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Black Dragon Officer & Standard (2pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Alexia, Mistress of the Witchfire (4pts)
Eiryss, Angel of Retribution (3pts)
Koldun Lord (2pts)
Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan (2pts)
Ogrun Bokur (3pts)
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor (2pts)
Iron Fang Kovnik (2pts)
As you can see, it is a true WM list as there are a crapload of Mercs and only one jack. I chose to play Rask (his other list was Old Witch with Kayazy but I was pretty sure he was going to play Butcher3).
Not only was the scenario Destruction, but there was a large Gargossal-sized Menofix obstruction right in the middle of the zone. A clusterf*ck of epic proportions. Joel deployed the Nyss on my left flank, the IFP on the right, and clustered everything else in the middle. I think he went first and just ran everything up, which I also did and popped my feat, so I would charge the Nyss next turn. He responded by running the Nyss directly away, mini-feating with the IFP and jamming them on the right side of the zone in Shield Wall, and throwing literally every other model in the list in a huge clump around Butcher directly behind the Menofix, with the exception of Beast 09 and an Argus who were a bit further up and bait.
For my turn, I ran a couple of Dirge Gators into the Nyss, pulled the exposed Argus out of a charge lane to Beast 09 with a Swamp Horror, thought about Vengeance but figured there was no way he would clear Butcher from that mess so I killed the Argus, then killed Beast 09 with 3 Fury-ed Posse and moved Rask behind a wall, leaving him 1/4" inch outside the killbox. No way I could get killed there, right? The Posse to my right also managed to roll amazing and kill 4 of the ARM 22 IFP.
At this point, I have a full Posse with Dirge of Mists jammed up to the left of the Menofix, and a full Posse jammed up on the right side of the Menofix, and 4 large based objectives. I'm thinking there is no way anyone can chew through all that stuff and get to Rask (who is also behind a Swamp Gobber cloud).
Nobody except Butcher3 apparently. Because after Vengeance, a Madelyn move, 2 Flashing Blades, a charge and a short Energizer move, Butcher3 is now in front of Rask with Silence of Death up and 2-shots him (one of which is his initial attack). Didn't even need the feat. I felt like a deer in headlights for an hour afterwards.
Almost enough to make me wish I was still playing Khador. Almost. |
So basically, I got completely steamrolled. It was a non-game/done deal once I triggered that Vengeance and saw what was actually going to happen, and Joel pulled it off perfectly. In retropect, without the Vengeance move, I would have only lost 5 Posse to a single Flashing Blade (5 Posse for 1 focus - seems fair), leaving Butcher in a position to get shot by Rask and killed by a Fury-ed Swamp Horror or Posse, after my Wrastler would have taken care of that Bokur. Nevertheless, I think Butcher3 is a really bad matchup for Gators since ARM 18, 8 Box meatwalls are almost meaningless and Impending Doom can make it all happen easily. Butcher2 can deal that much damage, but only in one area a turn. Will need to practice against it a bit more - other than staying way back or avoiding triggering out-of-activation moves, multiple staggered spaced-out meatwalls are one way to go.
Joel thinks I should have played Barnabas instead, but I think without Rask's gun and Fury, Butcher can just walk/charge forward each turn, Flashing Blade once to kill 5 gators, then camp 4/5 focus and be pretty much unkillable the whole game - on a scenario like Destruction, that pretty much means I will eventually lose on CPs over 7+ rounds or something. I really dislike Destruction as I feel it jams up the table a ton with 4 ARM20 large bases AND it takes way too damn long to score (minimum 3 turns if playing by yourself)
Game 2 - Damian w/ Trolls - Process of Elimination
Points: 46/50
Borka Kegslayer (*5pts)
* Dire Troll Mauler (9pts)
Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes (4pts)
* Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder (1pts)
Trollkin Champions (Leader and 4 Grunts) (10pts)
* Skaldi Bonehammer (3pts)
Trollkin Fennblades (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer (2pts)
Trollkin Long Riders (Leader and 4 Grunts) (11pts)
Fell Caller Hero (3pts)
As you can see, this is 4pts under, but I really don't remember what else was on the table. Maybe he just played 4 pts down by accident? I chose to play Rask again (the other list was eDoomshaper with a few heavies) and went second. Damian is a super nice guy so the game was going to be a good time in any event.
Basically this was just a giant grindfest, as games tend to be against Trolls - really long, and not too eventful. I even went under 20 minutes on Deathclock, which is very rare for me. I elected to not use my feat on turn one, meaning I took a couple of Fennblade charges on the chin without too much trouble, which were mostly wiped out by Gatormans (not much luck on tough rolls at this stage) before putting up Inhospitable Ground and my feat, leaving Champs, Borka and Long Riders just outside range to do anything meaningful. After that, stuff just grinded into each other, and it's not easy to beat Gators in the grind game.
I really wanted a scenario win to get CPs, but it was not to be. On my left were the Champs, including Skaldi who made no less than 4 tough rolls during the game, and on the right was Horthol, who did the same.
My reaction when my opponent makes 8 consecutive tough rolls on two models. |
Game 3 - Nick w/ Trolls - Into the Breach
Hunters Grim (*4pts)* Troll Impaler (5pts)
* Dire Troll Bomber (10pts)
* Dire Troll Bomber (10pts)
* Trollkin Runebearer (2pts)
Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes (4pts)
* Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder (1pts)
Pyg Burrowers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts)
Sons of Bragg (6pts)
Trollkin Scattergunners (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Trollkin Scattergunner Officer & Drummer (2pts)
Another game vs Trolls - sweet. I deployed my entire army in front of the zone, except for my Wrastler and one unit of Posse over by the 'dominate only' flag to my right (I had a forest directly in front of my deployment so had to split hard). He did mostly the same, with a Bomber and Sons of Bragg over by the flag.
I think I went first and just ran stuff up as you do. The Burrowers burrowed right in the middle of the table. On my second turn, I ran 2 units of Posse with Dirge of Mists to encircle the zone and put up Inhospitable Ground and my feat, which means he could not do much and his feat would go to waste. The Burrowers popped up and shuffled up a bit, getting two shots on Rask which missed, and the Scattergunners got a few sprays on Rask by targetting the Burrowers, which also did nothing.
Then I did what Fury-ed Gators do and blow up heavies and grind into Trolls and eventually managed to dominate the zone twice for 4CPs before killing Grim, now with no transfers as all his beasts were dead, with 2 Fury-ed Posse. I lost 13 or so Gatormans over the course of the battle, 4 to the Sons of Bragg, who are actually not bad at all. Mortality was a pretty big deal in denying tough and debuffing the Posse into killable-range.
Game 4 - Daryl w/ eLich - Outflank
PS - Daryl runs a sweet little business named Universal Battlegrounds, producing laser-cut gaming apparatus like terrain, templates and very legible tokens - check it out!The standard eLich list, without Daragh:
Lich Lord Asphyxious (*6pts)
* Deathripper (4pts)
* Nightwretch (4pts)
Bane Knights (Leader and 9 Grunts) (10pts)
Bane Thralls (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts)
* Bane Thrall Officer & Standard (3pts)
Bile Thralls (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Satyxis Blood Witches (Leader and 5 Grunts) (4pts)
* Satyxis Blood Hag (2pts)
The Withershadow Combine (5pts)
Bane Lord Tartarus (4pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Machine Wraith (1pts)
Saxon Orrik (2pts)
Warwitch Siren (2pts)
I hate Banes so much. One type of Bane gives you -2 ARM just for hanging around, the other Bane ignores free strikes and has Vengeance. Then there is the ÜberBane, who is hard as hell to kill and makes all his Banes faster and more accurate. It doesn't matter who they are - what matters is their plan, which is to
blow up Gators/heavies/my sanity.
Basically, this list was terrifying, and my only hope was to kill Tartarus and hope that the Banes miss the 7s needed to hit Dirged Posse. If there's anything you can be certain about with Gators against eLich, it's that you will never ever ever ever ever kill him as long as the Lich player knows the ropes, which Daryl certainly did, keeping Hellbound up and teleporting back behind clouds every turn. So many layers of defense on top of that 15/16 stat line and 18 health boxes. He is also +6 WJ - seems fair. With this in mind I opted for Barnabas to give my Posse a chance at living... longer.
This ended up being my lengthiest game of the day, with ~30 secs left on my opponent's clock and about ~17mins on mine. I opted to push for the left zone, since the Witches were deployed there (yay living models) and Gaspy was on the other side. I dedicated Pendrake, a Posse and a Wrastler to contest the right zone. One piece of terrain I should mention since it made a big difference to the game was a very large L-shaped wall ruin in the middle of the left zone, which we ruled as impassable but didn't block LOS.
First turn we both ran up (this is still Warmachine). His second turn he jammed Banes up into the zones (Thralls left, Knights right) and managed to Excarnate one of my Gators, leading to a Bile Thrall purge over a heap of Posse, both my heavies and a Totem Hunter. Keeping track of that many Corrosion effects is a good way to clock out a Gator player, since nothing really dies to Corrosion. The Witches also used their minifeat to run through the aforementioned über-wall and get firmly in my face and laugh at my lack of magic weapons.
I used my turn to feat and knock down most stuff on the table outside Lich and the Bane Knights, which then led to triggering some Warpath moves by killing a couple of Bane Thralls (who would just get up again next turn because Cryx). I managed to kill 5 of the 6 Biles with a Spitter AoE, and clearing the way to kill Tartarus and the last Bile with a Wrastler charge (yay Warpath). As for the Knights, I opted to just run into them since killing 2 or 3 Vengeance weapon masters leads to 5 dead Posse before said weapon-masters even activate. DO NOT DO IT.
On his turn, he managed to kill only a few Gatormans on both sides due to some pretty low dice rolls, and walk the Witches into my guys. Gorman also Black Oiled the Wrastler, who then got charged by the Withershadow and a Bane, leaving him on 4 boxes or so. Totally worthwhile trade for Tartarus.
I responded by killing a few more Thralls with Posse and Totem Hunter, a good chunk of Knights (7?), and all Witches but the UA with 2 Posse, Barnabas and a Croak Hunter (yes, they did something). Barnabas also healed the Wrastler for two, who with his mighty MAT of 2 managed to kill a Bane and a Withershadow member. Hordes FTW. He then died next turn to Saxon Orrick, but not before I had the chance to shoot him in the back with a Spitter and kill another Bane and damage another Withershadow member.
Then it was time for the Lich feat turn, which managed to leave my Spitter on a few boxes, kill all Posse in the right-side zone but one (who also survived a Machine Wraith charge, but then died to Corrossion next turn, living long enough to deny 2CPs), and generally turn what looked to be total domination on my part into a real game.
At this stage, Daryl's clock is getting really low and it is just a dance for CPs. Since I then scored first, I am technically ahead but we basically go back and forth clearing our zones while sticking something in the opponent's zone for a round (on his end, that was the very last Bane Thrall hiding behind the über-wall that made 2 tough rolls vs my Totem Hunter, finally dying to a Croak Hunter's javelin, and a Nightwretch that died to Barnabas's cleaver - on my end that was Pendrake and some remaining Gatormans).
Finally, I managed to contest his zone with my last 2 Gatormans, using Pathfinder to get past the huge area of Hellbound, and kill a contesting Machine Wraith placed 6.95" behind Barnabas. Had I not been in Cleaver range (my only magic weapon outside the now-dead Pendrake's sword), the game would have come down to needing an 8 to hit with a boosted Flesh Eater (or an 8 on 2d6 with a reroll, not sure which is more reliable). Boosted 7s on multiple Cleaver attacks are much more reliable. 5CPs to 4CPs on an extremely close game.
Afterthoughts
In the end, I chipmunked my way to 3rd place after the crushing defeat I suffered in round 1. And I got a mug, my 4th WM tournament mug:All my opponents were super sporting, but I gave my best Sports vote to Chris Baker (Best Sports 2013), as is my 2013 Steamroller resolution, despite him not actually playing in the tournament. Cheers Dave for another excellent tournament, and the mug (this time for an actual placing and not for my sweet blog). Also not having to face Circle 3 times in a row was a bonus.
----------------------------
Daily rant: tough is a stupid spam mechanic and PP should feel bad that it has gotten to the point it has. I don't use the buzz term 'lazy design' often (or ever), but if it should be applied anywhere, it should be here. The WM/H games system allows for so much more depth in the realm of defensive tech than "there is an entirely unmodifiable 1/3 chance that this model survives absolutely any attack you can throw at her- unless you brought anti-healing or tough tech that you as a Gators/Ret/Many-Other-Factions player don't actually have in any respectable quantity, you should just play Cryx lolz - with love, Jason Soles". They would never stand for this kind of crap in DotA.
I also feel bad when opponents feel they have to apologize to me for making so many tough rolls that I start openly weeping in front of them.
------------------------------------
How I would change the lists:
I think Barnabas with 3 Posses is the way to go at 50pts, without exception. I am not super thrilled with Pendrake and Croaks, but I can say that having access to a couple of ranged attacks made a big deal when it came to controlling zones. Pendrake would have done a lot more in a Hordes matchup, or if there were any heavies on the table at all. If his bow was magical, he would be total money.The Spitter actually did very well in the last game since there were nice clumps of stuff to shoot, so still unsure whether he is better than a Horror in that list or not. He probably is.
Rask with 3 Posse did great primarily because I played Trolls twice, and Posse with Fury win against Trolls. Otherwise I felt a little cluttered in the deployment. Still undecided whether WE + Snapjaw is better overall than a 3rd Posse in the list - definitely a great sideboard option if that becomes the standard next year (hope it does - the less skew in the game and the more situational models we can use, the better).
All I can say is, I am glad I did not play Garryth 4 games in a row.
But JS, Privateer Press IS doing something about tough... they just released a top tier caster whose army completely ignores that rule. ^_^
ReplyDeleteA few more of those and tough will be a thing of the past!
The next one will probably have a Terminus-style aura for Silence of Death, and Trolls will rejoice!
DeleteThis is my worry as a troll player.
DeleteMore and more ways of getting tough brings more tech at getting rid of it... This has an ill effect o trolls who straight out of the box are paying more point wise for this ability that is slowly depreciating in power.
Just from a discussion standpoint, is there actually any evidence that Tough has a points cost directly tied to it?
DeleteFrom my perspective, Trolls end up paying for their gimmicks in their low WB points casters and expensive warbeasts, both things you have to take, and why the best Steamroller Troll lists are troop spam (min/maxing the cost-efficient stuff).
Just to let you know, the blood witches mini-feat sends them incorporeal at the end of their activation. So they can't go through impassable objects and charge across walls. (Though I really wish they could)
ReplyDeleteGood to know for the future! At SPD 7 they probably could have run around it to end in the same spot (Hag may have been left behind though).
Delete