It seems my playgroup has pretty much died in terms of Warmahordes, given the really slow pace of change in the game/meta and the many entertainment alternatives available in geekdom, but regardless here are some play experiences and thoughts I have managed to get together with Jaga-Jaga before doing my "proper" write-up:
Game 1 vs Helga 2 Slaughterhouser units, 1 War Hog, 1 Road Hog, few Razorboards, some support stuff and manly solos
My Wrastler charged (could have walked - I was thinking SPD 6 rather than 7) a Death Shrouded Road Hog and only brought it to half health. Sad face. My damage rolls against beasts were pretty atrocious the whole game.
Dash is a pretty hard counter to Jaga's feat, but nevertheless the jamming aspect of it caused some minor issues.
SPD 6 turtles are nice but still suck horribly in melee. SPD 7 Wrastlers being able to walk and Death Roll however - serious business.
I would have lost on scenario over turns 3/4/5 if he'd just jammed me out of my zone after I had a series of mediocre rolls and an underwhelming feat turn (thanks Dash). But we kept playing as if that wasn't an option. As a result, I tried to get a Deadweight on Helga by killing a nearby Bonegrinder and rolled snake eyes on the damage (boo) and then decided to use my last 2 fury for Grave Wind. Jaga was left alive on 2 boxes, cut to 1, managed to make her way to Helga using transfers and killed her on my last attack. Poison + reach snake = MVP.
DEATH SNAKE.
Lessons learned - Basically no reason I'd drop Jaga Jaga vs the current Pig meta. Jaga Jaga not as good as Rask against Pigs. Getting the alpha + hitting really hard wins... a lot.
I hope to be able to test her against Circle (especially Kromac), Cryx and
likely also Khador/Legion, as those are matchups were Rask isn't the bee's
knees.
Game 2 vs Scaverous Full Bane Thralls + UA, Full Croes, Deathjack, Min Biles, Tartarus, arc node, Gorman, Withershadow
New opponent for me, I unfortunately forgot his name (Peter?) but he agreed that DotA was a sweet game so he's cool in my book. The scenario was Supply and Demand.
Feat did ok - held up the Bane countercharge for a turn so I traded evenly on that flank and got Dark Shroud on the Deathjack on the other flank, allowing me to finish him off with a charging Gatorman (he had been brought low previously by a charging Wrastler and almost killed due to Spiny Growth - good trade for me).
Really wish I had Witch Doctors vs Cryx. It would have helped significantly vs Deathjack's healing and Croe's poison weapons. Will probably always take at least 1 with her from now on, even though the benefits aren't as steep as with Maelok.
Scenario win in the end, thanks largely to the forest in the dead middle of the zone I just hid behind the whole game and dominated twice over 3 rounds after killing his objective. Ghost Walk came in handy to get a charging Spitter through to the relevant models to clear the zone.
Lessons learned - take Witch Doctors whenever you have 3 Posse. The Undead is extremely useful vs Cryx, and having another ranged nuke is pretty useful in general to take out the support and crutch solos. Plus Tough is potentially neat.
Game 3 vs Constance Blaize (Highborn Covenant) Gallant, Nomad, Gastone + Vanguard, Full Precursors + UA, Max Steelhead Cav, Min Halberdiers, Gun Mages + UA, Harlan Versh
This time I brought my "Cryx" list, with 3 Posse and 2 Witch Doctors. Also had the Spitter, Wrastler and Snapper, together with Pendrake.
Scenario was Incursion - there was a house between my deployment and the right flag, and a forest roughly midway between the center and the left flag slightly on his side of the table. He deployed heavily to the left flag where I deployed more centrally with a Posse dedicated to each flag, a Wrastler to the left flag and the rest pretty central. Only the Gun Mages were within reach of the right flag.
The left flag disappeared, which means I ended up in a highly favourable position, and won by rushing the right flag, just killing whatever gun mages I needed to score each turn. Basically, he deployed poorly and luck didn't reward him.
Jaga-Jaga did two useful things in the game - 1) Cast Ghost Walk on the central Posse unit so get 2 more into combat by ignoring freestrikes and walking through impassable terrain. 2) Use her feat, which against an infantry swarm like the one I was facing was as sweet, as you'd expect. It was a very effective jamfest and the Dark Shroud helped Posse make short work of the Steelhead Cav with their second attacks. The one major downside is that it is annoying and takes a long time to administer. After the feat turn, she healed a beast and ran over to the right flag to win me the game.... so I guess that was useful too (SPD 6 = sweet).
Witch Doctors did functionally nothing, but Pendrake did manage to KD Gallant so that my Wrastler with a missing Mind could walk 7" up to it and 2-hand throw it away from the flag to get a CP.
Lessons learned - Jaga-Jaga is a super passive caster. It's almost like I'm playing Warmachine instead of the dynamic system that is Hordes. I guess Maelok plays the same if you're a sissy and never use Malediction (the optimal but definitely most boring way to play). Also SPD 6 Spitters are really neat, but we knew that with Barnabas/Warpath anyway. I keep considering bring a Swamp Horror instead of a Wrastler, but the SPD 7 Wrastler with Grave Wind/Spiny Growth keeps doing so much work that I never follow through on it.
I have a relatively huge 42pt tournament coming up in a couple of weeks. I say relatively huge because this is probably the biggest Warmachine tournament in the NZ calendar, and it happens to be local. Yay!
This tournament is run by Soulless Dave, who enjoys the following things:
1 - Running sweet tournaments, which he can't play in otherwise he'd probably win those too.
2 - Giving me beer mugs.
3 - Shamelessly relishing how OP Cryx is.
Quite the gentleman.
Anyway, I have been told that Gator list building is faceroll and requires no decision making at all, and that playing Gators for so long has erased my ability to write "good" or "sound" lists for other factions. In light of these comments, I thought I would write a post about my list writing process for this 42pt nightmare.
First, I must admit that writing lists are the part of the hobby/game I enjoy the least. This could do with the fact that Gators have way less options than everyone else, or it could be related to how writing lists for my previous factions (Khador, PoM, Skorne) used to remind me that I would have a much better chance of winning games if I just bought X unit or Y solo for this specific list, or it could be related to how I would rather the game be as well balanced as people claim and lists had very little impact on the outcome of a game rather than a sizable one. But then I accept that a lot of people really enjoy the meta-game, and I too see the appeal in it, I just don't really experience the enjoyment of it too often.
Secondly, 42pts is a kick in the nuts, especially when you play Minions. Unlike most of the fleshed out big boy factions, it is very, very difficult to build 2 lists that answer enough matchups sufficiently. 3 lists might be alright, but two is very tight. In Minions, this is primarily a result of our casters being so dominant and being the primary "solutions" to problems we face. Factions like Legion, PoM or Cryx don't really have trouble making 2 lists that can more or less deal with more or less everything, simply through having a wide range of beasts, units, support and niche-filling mercs. That's not a luxury Minions have.
The higher the points, the more balanced the game is. That's been my experience in the past year anyway. I really think the meta would benefit on the whole from a push up to 60/65 pts, but that's another post altogether.
The Proto-Lists
These are the lists I started with, and I would have to choose 2 of these:
List 1: Rask
Spitter
Snapper
5 Gatormans 5 Gatormans 5 Gatormans Min. Trogs Gobbers
4pts for "support"
3 Posse version. I take a Spitter in this list because the entirety of the damage potential of the list comes from cycling Fury on Gatormans and shooting off defensive upkeeps. High skill plays right there, woo! Anyway, having a Spitter is nice to clear jams and soften up targets at range. I guess he can also do stuff in melee with Paralysis and Fury and Boundless Charge and all that. Maybe.
The min. Trog unit and Gobbers more or less make Rask invincible, which either will result in my opponent wasting attacks on Rask, or ignoring Rask and his fish friends entirely so they are free to wreck havoc as they please. Either way, points usually well spent.
So the two questions with this list are '2 Posse, or 3 Posse?' and 'What to do with those 4pts?'
List 2: Barnabas
Wraster
Spitter Snapper
5 Gatormans 5 Gatormans 5 Gatormans
Feralgeist
I would really, really like to throw in some solos like Croak Hunters, a Thrullg or Totem Hunter in there to give the list some flexibility, but 42pts! I think the beast composition is pretty fixed - without any Croaks, you really need a Spitter for some ranged presence, and Bull Snappers are too good to pass up between their sweet man-eating abilities and Spiny Growth on Barnabas.
The Wrastler could be changed for a Horror, however. More on that later.
Max Posse, the two Croctors I own, and 2 Bull Snappers to use up those beast points. This is pretty much the Maelok list I used at Battlecry this month (minus Pendrake), and does what you want Maelok lists to do - get a big unpredictable feat turn, then tank up and grind your way to victory.
The only real question is what to do about those last 9pts?
THEORYMACHINE TIME!
Some things are a given:
I have to play Rask to break ARM, and doubly so post-Colossals. Also he's like one of the best warlocks in the entire game, so there's that going for him too.
I have to bring at least 2 units of Gatormans per list, because 2 Posse is better than every other alternative in almost every situation. 3 Posse, in my opinion, is not a certainty however.
The tournament is mid-March and has a fully-painted requirement, so I am unlikely to have Shamblers ready by then.
Because the field is so big, every faction is likely to be represented in some capacity. Except Pigs, since the only guy I know who plays Pigs told me he'd be playing Gators because his Gators are fully-painted (but really, he's just sick of Pigs).
Factions I don't really have to worry about in general:
Skorne - any Rask list does great to decent here. There are of course builds that will hurt like Xerxis Cetrati brick or Zaal attrition, but in general it is not something I can really list tech against heavily.
Retribution - Similar to Skorne. I think Rahn and eVyros Griffon spam can be a real worry, but not something I really have to tech for. As long as it's Rask, and perhaps Barnabas, we're alright. Gators shred infantry, and Fury kills heavies.
Protectorate - similar to Skorne but more annoying. The Errant/Piper/Book combo is also cryx-level, jigglypuff-in-a-vaccuum-cleaner type of retarded, but since I have no anti-tough, I cannot do a single thing about it or the Gorman hiding behind them chaining Black Oils onto my stuff. They also usually have lots of magic weapons to skrew Maelok's feat.
Circle - Most Circle stuff is squishy and dies to Gators. Gator casters are also real tough to assassinate so they lose that gameplan.
Legion - a fair matchup for Gatormans, so it mostly comes down to how I play. Usually Legion has trouble dealing with so much ARM and anti-shooting. Note the comment on Vayl below however.
Cygnar - Cygnar does Cygnar things. I have pretty good anti-shooting tech (which Siege ignores), but otherwise there's not much to specifically worry about. Rask is pretty good most of the time here.
Trolls - For the most part, Trolls are like Gators except with crappier troops but way better lists, if you catch my drift. They can bring some problematic lists like Runes of War and eDoomshaper heavy spam. But I think it more or less comes down to two things: good play, and the troll player rolling 5s when he needs them.
Mercs - Infantry dies, bad jacks are bad. The Merc Colossal skew can be a problem though, but overall the faction isn't really problematic.
Factions I have to worry about in general:
Cryx - my arch nemesis. Infantry that destroys mine for half the cost + all undead and all that. Stupid. Does it with pretty much any caster.
Khador - these guys are tough in a multi-list environment because they will always hit really hard in any list, but the possibility of IF Kayazy is quite a list-chicken problem for Gators (to Barnabas or not?). I don't think I have problems with specific casters as much as their general options and the many, many mercs they are sure to bring. It's like Cygnar, except it actually hurts.
Casters/builds I have to worry about specifically:
eMorvahna - Maelok does so much better than Barnabas here on account of his feat and assassination potential. Barnabas does ok, but he does better than Maelok vs most other Circle stuff.
Harbinger - Awe is public enemy number 1. MAT 5 is terrible. Of course I can make the Gators undead, but then I have to use 3pts down on a Croctor or two in the Rask list, and at 42pts that's a big support investment for only one caster. The alternative is to drop Maelok and hope like hell the second list isn't some jack spam list (which is a tall order). The feat is nasty as well but usually I can get in the zone after that and stay there till the end. She also brings the Errant tarpit up to mega-powered Ben Stiller fully retarded.
Vayl - Incite, her feat, Dark Sentinel and Rampager can be really problematic for my lists. She is also a pretty popular caster around here. I do not like her, Sam I am. And there's not too much I can do about it. Barnabas is probably the best bet due to Pits + Iron Flesh + feat.
Terminus - if I don't have a Thrullg, I probably lose. Sweet. People like Terminus as well so he's very likely to be pretty well represented in the field. Because hard skewing is fun for everyone.... said the guy playing 3 Posses.
Bart/Galleon - this is a tough cookie. Theoretically, if I can shoot off Spiny Growth and cycle Fury, I can probably 1-round the Galleon. However every single other thing in the Galleon list is made to stop that happening and I get grinded out as Galleon gets repaired up every turn. So I probably drop Maelok or Barnabas, ignore Galleon and go for everything else, and hope it's a 2 zone scenario? I guess Rhulic casters with the Pooper Scooper also fits in here, but again, there is a near total lack of quality experience against quality lists on my part.
Haley/Denny/hard control casters - The great thing about this is I can worry all I want, but can't really do jack about it. So I suck it up, hope the feat turn goes ok for my opponent while he timewalks over my play time, and we move on if I have anything left.
Decision 1 – Barnabas or Maelok?
The Barnabas list is a pretty good all around list. It does "ok vs
Cryx" due to many Posse, his feat + Spitter. It does pretty well against Circle
and Legion, even without Pendrake. I am also quite a bit better at playing him than I am at playing Maelok, which counts for something.
Maelok is much better vs Cryx, ok vs Circle (great against eMorvahna), ok vs Legion (mostly because I am not so good at playing him) and also has some game vs jammy infantry Zaal Skorne and most Trolls (even with the anti-incorp aura - if the Troll player is using it, then he's not using +1 STR and you live longer to grind).
Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Both feel a little gimped by 42pts rather than 50pts, Barnabas probably a little less. There is no real alternative (Calaban is a bad dream and Pigs are Pigs) outside these two for a second list. So I guess it just comes down to how I feel on decision day.
Decision 2 – Rask with 2 Posse, or 3 Posse?
The 2 Posse alternative involves dropping one Posse for WE+ Snapjaw (since he is probably the best combat heavy we have and does bad ass things with ALL THE BUFFS), and the Spitter for a Swamp Horror, since the Horror brings Elasticity for the two big Crocs and does some really good damage with Rask.
For the way I play, 3 Posse is better against Trolls while 2 Posse is better vs PoM and Skorne. This is from 50pt experience, where I will usually have Horror+Wrastler+Snapjaw in the Rask list and can blow stuff up with only a tiny charge lane by spreading the triple-heavy threat and then stacking buffs on the chosen heavy when the opportunity presents itself.
However at 42pts, you have a bit more space on the table and the 3 Posse skew can be really problematic for your opponent (a.k.a. skewy as balls). On the flipside, taking 3 Posse is also a hell of a lot less interesting for me tactically since it basically removes Boundless Charge from Rask's spell list and power attacks from mine. I do love me some power attacks... damn you Colossals. Damn your stupidity.
Thus it comes down to what I can expect to play against, and whether I will hate myself for only taking 2 Posse when I get dropped against Trolls 3 rounds in a row.
For Barnabas and Maelok, I play 3 full Posses by default. If Gator beasts hit harder/more accurately than a full unit of Gators, this probably wouldn't be the case, since both can do pretty good things for Gator beasts - not as much as Rask of course, but a lot nevertheless. But as things stand, I have found that playing three Posse with these two is much preferable to taking two (I played two Posse with them for almost a year before getting a third).
Decision 3 – Rask solos
In any case, I have 4pts left over in the Rask list (5pts if you discount the Gobbers). These are going to be used for solos.... a sort of "support" allocation, one might say.
I've given myself 3 options here:
Two Croak Hunters - these guys are mediocre as hell, but when they are one of your only ranged attacks, you learn to value their input. They can hold zones about as well as the other two options, they can unblock Gators, they are two independent activations and are really sweet at countercharging.
Totem Hunter + Feralgeist - the Totem Hunter is a lot like a Croak Hunter on steroids but without a gun. His stats and mobility are almost better than a Croak in every way, but he relies entirely on proccing Sprint to unblock Gators. This has led to bad things in my life. But he can also sometimes break games open if used patiently, and does work at all stages of the game. Finally, he is also a character so putting him in this list means he isn't in my other lists, and I do love him vs Circle to snipe out Shifting Stones. Feralgeists are 1pt zone holders/contesters 99% of the time, and sometimes take over beasts to annoy people (primarily me).
Croctor + Feralgeist - This would almost be purely for the Harbinger matchup alone, because the stuff I drop Rask against doesn't usually care about Undead and Tough on Gators is mostly a non-issue.
Decision 4 - Barnabas asks "Wrastler or Horror"?
Another tricky question revolving entirely around one beast selection:
On one side, the Wrastler is SPD 5, reasonably tanky (especially with Spiny Growth), and is P+S 17. He can do respectable, although not great damage. He also keeps the 'Rise Missile' threat alive, which is the one thing people seem to know about Gators. Being able to independently knock heavy targets down following a charge is also pretty neat. His weaknesses are lack of reach and an extra point cost relative to the Horror.
On the other, the Swamp Horrorhas really good protection vs shooting, can do work against infantry, has built-in reach, can give reach to other things (mainly Barnabas or some random Gatorman), benefits a LOT from Warpath since it is slow, and also costs 1 less point than a Wrastler, allowing me to level the Feralgeist up to a Croak Hunter for that extra ranged attack. Its weaknesses are being squishy as balls in melee, and being 1 less POW and 2 less STR than a Wrastler.
Decision 5 - Maelok's last 9 pts.
Unfortunately Posse are (only) FA:3 in Blindwater. Sad face. That means I have to take other things.
WE + Snapjaw - Usually in a Maelok list, you want to have Wrong Eye around to put up another 2 Spiny Growths a turn. And you also get a sweet heavy to go with it. However, at 42pts, that's not really a luxury we have. But you still get a pretty good heavy and solo with solid animi.
Support solo staff: TH + Thrullg + Pendrake + Feralgeist -This gives a little more flexibility to the list. Thrullgs are good against Cryx, the Totem Hunter can also be super scary with incorporeal charges followed by a Sprint away and 15 Gators in your grill, Pendrake makes Gators much better vs beasts (so they can Dirge or Pathfinder on the charge if needed), and the Feralgeist gives you specific zone control potential. But, you don't have a heavy hitter outside Malediction (which you really don't want to be using as a core ARM crack strategy).
So there you have it - how faceroll easy it is to chose Gator lists, why I don't have to worry about list chicken because all my lists are the same and why I am so bad at making lists for other factions.
What did lists did I go for in the end? Stay tuned for exciting revelations in March (after lists have been submitted to TO)!!
I went with Rask and Maelok. Calaban can only "really" be played with his tier (note that unlike Runes of War, this does not make him really baller, just makes him less bad) and the tier is not great at 35pts. He himself is not really that sweet at 35pts, or ever.
Rask is good because he does Rask things. Combine this with 35pt foolishness and you have a pretty strong skew. I usually play Barnabas as my second list and wanted a change, therefore going for Maelok (the only other alternative).
Step 2 - Choose to skew or not skew.
I decided to skew one, and then skew both:
Rask
Snapper
Snapper
3x Gatorman Posse
Min Troggs
Feralgeist Croak This list is pretty stupid. I called it "GOING FULL RETARD", which it was. 3 Posse at 35pts is the kind of skew that makes games uninteresting, but hey, why not do it if they're not going to fix it. If you ask me, I think we should move to 60 or 65 pts as the new tournament standard as it'd make factions like Cryx, Circle and Legion a little weaker, Trolls a little stronger, and everyone else more or less the same. And include 15 pt Specialists on top of that. Boom. The Maelok list was the same as the Rask one, except switching Feralgeist and Trogs for 2 Witch Doctors, and the Croak for Pendrake. Pendrake did nothing good in any game - he is the king of the sideboard.
Behold, this zoological majesty!
A very short summary of my games
1- Luke H w/ eDoomshaper, Mountain King, Earthborn, Krielstone and Scouts. Incursion.
His second list was eGrim with 2 shooty heavies and the Krielstones UA. Despite this (the Incorporeal destroying Stone UA), I had a nagging feeling I should have picked Maelok, but I pushed this out of my head and picked Rask. This was a bad choice as eDoomshaper's feat is "+3 SPD, full stop, bitches!", not "+3 SPD if charging or slamming" as I had first thought, meaning his entire pathfinder list responds to my feat by jamming me with tramples and killing my stuff. As expected, Luke's response to me popping Rask's feat was jamming me with everything in his list, including the Scouts to block charges to the MK. I wasn't able to get enough damage on the King because of some fortunate tough rolls on his part (ie. 4 in a row on the same damn Scout), so he healed to full and kept swinging. Luckily Rask is basically immune to assassination with Trogs around, so I ran him over to the right flag over 2 turns, where the Croak Hunter had been parked since turn 2 and won on 5 CPs. A stolen game I should have lost on account of getting outplayed and outlisted, but managed to take advantage of his skew list's small footprint.
2. - Paul H w/ Hexeris2, Bronzeback, Gladiator, Krea, Nihilators, Incindiarii, Nihilators, Paingivers. Process of Elimination I was forced to pop my feat turn 1 as I had ambushed my Bog Trogs and only had Rask on 2 transfers - had I not used it, Hexeris would likely have spelled me to death using his feat. This was a planning mistake on my part as it otherwise only blocked 2-3 Nihilator charges from happening (which likely would have been stopped by Inhospitable Ground alone). So, I more or less played without a feat. Otherwise it was mostly a matter of charging Furied Gatormen into things and trying to keep Rask alive with Admonition and transfers alone, which worked pretty well. I ended up assassinating Hexeris in the end after he decided to YOLO charge some Gators, then got hit by 2 Furied Gators (from different units), a charging Croak and died to a Bog Trog hook in the back.
Rask is pretty good against Skorne.
3. - Dave S w/Skarre1, 30 McThralls (that's 15 pts, btw), 10 Bloodwitches with UA, 2 Necrosurgeons, 2 Helldivers, Min Blackbanes. Destruction.
Dave said he took this list just to play against me. Thanks Dave. You are too kind. His list writing took my 35pt motto "GOING FULL RETARD" to heart, and managed to out-retard my list - proving that only Cryx is capable of giving 110% retardation by simply Cryxing harder.
Basically the game was a huge grind where I popped my feat on my second turn and killed like 22 guys but none of the Necrosurgeons, then he popped his feat and got boosted-to-hit POW 20s everything (cause Cryx). In the end I mistakenly assumed Skarre was SPD 6, when she is in fact SPD 7, so she just walked over to Maelok and easily killed him with her 11 focus (all in the name of balance). Thus began my downfall. I think overall we both played quite well with some minor mistakes here and there to even things out. The only huge mistake in the game by far, on both our parts, was when I cast a boosted Venom at a Necrosurgeon hiding behind a wall, and Dave called Sac Pawn to a Stitch Thrall. We got into a short debate regarding Sac Pawning sprays and agreed that you could, when in fact we should have been focusing on the fact that Venom is a spell, not a ranged attack! If that Necrosurgeon had died (very good chance - need 7s on 3 dice + Corrosion), the game would have played out very differently I think, with that flank collapsing much faster and Maelok being entirely unthreatened and able to pull back and stay much safer while simultaneously pushing me forward in attrition. Basically a massive boost for me. Alas, you live, you learn, you continue to hate Cryx.
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MINI RANT OF THE WEEK: Skarre1 and McThralls are straight up OP, and where probably designed in the midst of a really dark LSD trip, overflowing with hatred of the world. Here is how you fix them: Skarre - Remove Ritual Sacrifice entirely. Dark Guidance is not a choice when you have 10+ focus at next to zero cost (like losing one of your 45 small-based models matters), and non-choices are the antithesis of games design and competitive play. And who the hell thought it was a good idea to make it a d6 roll? Going from 1 more focus to 100% more focus seems legit, right? I'd say make her focus 7 to compensate but her feat is also simply stupid (it is literally pStryker's feat + a 100% denial of eStryker's feat - all for 5 life points) so I wouldn't want more stuff affected by it, but it's probably the simplest way to do it. That or +1 ARM. McThralls - MAT 4 -or- no combo strike. You shouldn't be able to hit an average heavy on expected dice if you cost 0.5 points and hit at P+S 15 completely independent of buffs/debuffs (of which there are PLENTY in Cryx). HALF. A. POINT.
Easy. Too bad it's not going to happen since PP are scared shitless of balancing anything post-release :)
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4. - Nikola w/Vayl1, Typhon, Seraph, Scythean, Raek, Shredder, Shepard, 2 Deathstalkers. Some scenario (Incoming?) Nikola played actually really well and I played really bad. Like, really really bad. I think Rask was a way better matchup here, but I dropped Maelok again for practice since I realized that the prize pool didn't include mugs, and mugs are the only thing I care about in NZ tournaments (I have 4). Basically I ran stuff up way too far, Typhon and Scythean one-shot like 9 Gators under Incite, then I tried to assassinate Vayl with feat + Revive BS, got cock-blocked by Dark Sentinel and forgot to move my unit leader so the Revived guys couldn't even make attacks. What a muppet. Got steamrolled and outplayed and basically put up the worst match one can imagine. Much like the last time we played. I am guessing his total nice guy approach disarms my asshole WAAC ethos, making me play like a complete ballsack.
Usually I consider myself 50/50 against Legion and it is one of my fairer matchups, but this time I really wasn't in the right mindset. I need to practice more with Maelok, as I play him far too aggressively, which gets him killed. He's tough but he's not Barnabas sitting in Swamp Pit with transfers and Spiny Growth tough.
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Dave came 1st, Paul placed 2nd and Nikola placed 3rd, giving me officially the most ball-busting schedule in the tournament. I'm guessing I placed something like 8th or 9th out of 17. Overall nice tournament, thanks to Darryl Painter for organizing and running it!
Some thoughts
I don't like 35pts much as I dislike skews and list-design having that much impact on the outcome of the game, but I really like one-day events so that worked out alright in the end. Came home to a nice dinner of salad + fish. Good stuff. Cryx is OP.
I should probably practice with Maelok more, but our local Ret player is about to get his new caster Tinkerbell in the mail, and I think she will totally steamroll Maelok. He will probably still refuse to play Rask :( I don't think Maelok is as good as Circle/Legion matchup as Barnabas, but he's the better Cryx matchup. It's the eternal question in a 2-list format.
I think my all-star picks in the Rask games was the Croak Hunter. Despite their mediocrity, as I have gotten better as using them they seem like a worthwhile addition to most lists given then ability to clear jams and charge lanes, or countercharge like mad, or just go for scenario points. He pretty much single-handedly won me my first game by just being a solo with Stealth, and did a crapton of damage on Hexeris in the second game.
Yeah, I am totally mad about Cryx. Deal with it, because I can't (at least until my Battle Engine loaded with anti-incorporeal, anti-tough and anti-undead tech is released).
2 day tournaments are soul-draining affairs, which I guess is why Cryx does so well.
Here are some quick reports from my games. I have no pictures or anything from the event, and only had a punnet of strawberries for lunch on day one. I will therefore have to keep you entertained using witty anecdotes and my own brand of bitter rage. Opponents' list have been gathered from repressed depths of my memory, while my lists were the same as Choptober except WE + Snapjaw instead of a 3rd Posse with Rask.
DAY ONE
We left Auckland at 6:30am and got to the venue in Hamilton about 8am. Road tripping is the best part of the tournament since you can talk about how awesome you'll do on the way down and rage about how bad you did on the way back up. It is especially good when you have a Retribution player on board and they constantly talk about switching factions on the return trips.
Game 1 vs Legion (Nikola) - Scenario: Close Quarters
Nikola is one of the guys who drove down with us in the car. He is a new player and a Croatian immigrant, which makes him alright in my book. I chose to play Barnabas vs Legion, and he dropped pVayl since that's the list he was comfortable with (pVayl is one of the strongest Legion matchups against Gators with Typhon due to Incite + Rampager). He went 3-1 with his Vayl list, and 0-3 with his Lylyth2 list over the tournament.
This was the only game of the tourmanent where I felt I played legitimately badly and was outplayed by my opponent and lost. This could be because I spent most of the time explaining everything on the table in multiple ways and as a result blew up my brain and ignored vital factors like scenario, threat ranges, and board control, but either way I got crushed pretty bad after my poor plans combined with some crotch dice and lost Barnabas to a Typhon melee assassination. Typical of my tournament starts were I get nutstomped round one.
0 CPs
Game 2 vs Retribution (Chris Ford) - Scenario: Incoming
Faction: Retribution of Scyrah Points: 48/50 Kaelyssa, Night's Whisper (*7pts) * Banshee (10pts) * Phoenix (10pts) * Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts) Dawnguard Sentinels (Leader and 9 Grunts) (9pts) * Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard (2pts) Houseguard Halberdiers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (7pts) * Houseguard Halberdiers Officer & Standard (2pts) Mage Hunter Infiltrators (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts) Arcanist (1pts) Mage Hunter Assassin (2pts) Mage Hunter Assassin (2pts)
I am missing some filler points it seems. Maybe there was Scyir in there somewhere.
I have never played against Chris before and it was a pleasant experience. He was a good player and put up a strong game with a sweet-looking Ret army. I chose to drop Barnabas again so I could save Rask for later since he didn't have a Hyperion in either list. This made the matchup much more even than if I had dropped Rask but still in my favour. He chose to drop Kaelyssa rather than Ravyn (good call).
Barnabas spent the whole time hiding in a Swamp Pit inside my zone, and I sent a single unit of Posse to contest his zone, which they did fine vs Infiltrators for the whole game. I responded to his feat by running about ~7 Gatormans into the Halberdier wall, which then became a huge line of jam as Halberdiers and Sentinels tried to kill as many Gators as possible (they got most them). The one odd thing is he didn't use the Halberdiers mini-feat that turn, since he felt he would get to use it again more effectively later. I asked if he had played against Gators before, and he said no.
Here is a picture of a Gatorman in combat with Ret infantry.
Notice the mass casualties on the right.
I then killed almost all the Sentinels and Halberdiers with a Spitter, Totem Hunter, Croaks and a couple of the remaining Gatormans. I also charged the Phoenix with my Wrastler, death rolled boosted and rolled a 1,2,2 like a boss. GG Wrastler. Anyway, I got to 4CPs that turn and he didn't have much left, so he ran Kaelyssa into my zone to steal 3 CPs (Incoming is a pretty stupid scenario) since I forgot to leave a non-warcaster model in the zone. This minor mistake would later cost me a game the next day.
Another thing I remember in this game is Chris passing like 7 terror checks over the course of the game. It was a sight to behold as the elves stood firm to the end. Who needs fearless?
Obviously missing some stuff. I dropped Rask. This gap is memory is understandable given the events that followed:
Round 1, Turn 1: I run up. Round 1, Turn 2: He runs up. He casts a Breath of Corruption through a Nihilator, killing a Gatorman.
Left flag disappears. Round 2, Turn 1: I run Snapjaw into B2B with the right hand side flag, and run a unit of Gators close to the middle flag. Rask feats and puts up Inhospitable Ground. Round 2, Turn 2: He backs everything up and contests nothing. I get 2 CPs. Round 3, Turn 1: I move Rask in B2B with the middle flag, bringing me to 5 CPs.
TO's reaction:
I didn't roll a single die. My opponent was obviously super bummed that he let something like that happen, but that's why they say there's no better place to learn the game than tournaments. The better course of action would have been to run most stuff into my Gators, feat and use dual Agonizer auras to reduce incoming damage significantly. After that it would probably be a dice rolling contest of Furied Gatormans vs Enraged beat-back heavies, since I don't have the guns to remove the Agonizers from the back, making my beasts near useless.
So I won in the douchiest way possible (pro skillz) and got a much desired 1.5 hour break to go walking around the venue and play some Watchmachine.
10 CPs
Game 4 vs PoM (Chris Baker) - Scenario: Supply and Demand
Faction: Protectorate of Menoth Points: 49/50 High Exemplar Kreoss (*5pts) * Reckoner (8pts) Avatar of Menoth (11pts) Choir of Menoth (Leader and 3 Grunts) (2pts) Exemplar Errants (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts) * Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard Bearer (2pts) Holy Zealots (Leader and 9 Grunts) (6pts) * Holy Zealot Monolith Bearer (2pts) Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts) Knight Exemplar Seneschal (3pts) Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts) The Covenant of Menoth (2pts) The Wrack (3 wracks) (1pts) Vassal Mechanik (1pts) Vassal of Menoth (2pts) Vassal of Menoth (2pts)
I seem to play Chris once every tournament. He plays a different army every tournament, but always complains about how bad he is, irrelevant of faction, while taking nutbusting lists and getting a winning record. This time he played PoM, and I dropped Rask. There were also two HUGE obstruction pieces to either side of the zone. These factors resulted in a really stupid game played on the middle 16" of the board with very little room for tactics or clever use of game mechanics.
Here is a summary of the game, turn by turn:
My turns - Cast Inhospitable Ground, disrupt Reckoner. Stab Errants. His turns - No KD on book, Tough on Defender's Warded Errants, blind my Wrastler with Gorman hiding behind three Errants (which I will obviously never kill due to their Self-Sac, thus never getting an attack on Gorman). Stab Gators.
This went on for about 5 rounds or so (he used his feat somewhere in the middle to kill about 6 Gators with Zealot bombs and Errants), until I managed to get a Furied Boundless Charge Swamp Horror onto the Avatar and within reach of Kreoss, who totalled the Avatar and pulled Kreoss in to get charged by Snapjaw. I brought Kreoss down to 3 boxes, and probably would have killed him had I boosted my last damage roll instead of futilely fishing for a crit with my initial tail attack (forgot that no KD was up on the book, somehow).
Things then got serious as stuff started really dying, and I was looking to either lose on attrition or win on deathclock until Kreoss charged forward to kill some Gators, camped 8 like a boss, then got shot in the face with Rask's Disruptor Bolt, getting rid of that focus and rolling some death. Yep, Rask actually killed someone himself.
Oh, I also gave him a CP by destroying my own objective. Apparently that changed from SR2012 to SR2013. Anyway, I got 2 zealot kills out of it. Totally worth it.
10 CPs
So as is common with me, I lose my first game of the day horribly and win the next 3. Typical JS chipmunking. We drive back to Auckland and hear about how bad Retribution is.
Yay Cryx. Dave is possibly the nicest person one could ever play against and his army looks really stellar so it's tough to hold his choice of faction against him. Tough, but not impossible. There is always a place in my heart for Cryx hate.
He dropped pDenny, I dropped Barnabas. I decided to push for the zone, he pushed for the flag. I feel that he delayed his feat too long (used it Turn 3), which allowed me to feat first and kill basically his entire army, except for some Satyxis, all Bloodgorgers (who both have No Sleeping on the Job because they are Cryx) and Deathjack who was miles away and terrified of the Swamp Pits. That satisfaction you get when you kill a full unit of Bane Knights in one turn.... oh yeah. There were 2 Satyxis in the zone I wasn't able to clear, so I didn't get any CPs at this time.
He then feated and killed some stuff and we went back and forth on points as stuff died. Eventually I lost out in the end as I didn't leave a model in my zone again (see game 2), therefore allowing him to score a point there by toeing in and win 5 to 4. If I had left a model in there, I would have had to kill a now-fully healed Deathjack with Barnabas and maybe a Wrastler... not the greatest proposition. Probably the best game of the tournament, where I made 2-3 tiny positioning mistakes that lost me CPs and the game. If only Barnabas didn't hit like a wet noodle....
14 CPs
Game 6 vs Circle (Luke Brimblecombe) Scenario: Fire Support
Faction: Circle Orboros Points: 50/50 Morvahna the Dawnshadow (*5pts) * Gorax (4pts) * Warpwolf Stalker (10pts) * Warpwolf Stalker (10pts) Shifting Stones (2pts) * Stone keeper (1pts) Shifting Stones (2pts) Tharn Bloodtrackers (Leader and 9 Grunts) (8pts) * Nuala the Huntress (2pts) Warpborn Skinwalkers (Leader and 4 Grunts) (8pts) * Warpborn Alpha (3pts) Gallows Grove (1pts) Gallows Grove (1pts) Gatorman Witch Doctor (3pts)
Luke was the only undefeated player at this point so in my opinion should have won, but alas this is a 2 day NZ format that rewinds grinding your face against the wall until you bleed. He got matched up against me despite my pretty average record due to some unusual pairing system and was pretty confident in the matchup given that eMorvahna is an OP grinding monster.
Anyway, he ran tough undead Bloodtrackers in my face and slowly killed Gators with hit/damage rerolls, traded one Stalker for my Wrastler. I then proceeded to move Barnabas up to the halfway mark, feat, and kill all but one Skinwalker (who was in melee with Barnabas, so I should really have killed him), most of the Bloodtrackers, and the Gallows Groves. He responded by feating and bringing back EVERY SINGLE MODEL I HAD KILLED then running back behind an obstacle right on the edge of the kill box. Demoralizing to an extreme, but at least I can comfort myself with the fact that unlike eHaley and Deneghra's feats, I could have done something about it (wipe out units to the man). Alas, the Croaks failed me. There's a reason I'm not generally thrilled with Croak Hunters.
Seeing how screwed I was with most of my Gatormans dead and only a dead Stalker in his casualties pile, I decided to try and execute a plan the likes of which I have not executed since the release of Rask and Gargossals, both of which have dumbed down the game for me to a large extent and made me the mediocre player I am today. The moment where I was concocting this convoluted and low-probability assassination run was probably the most exciting minute of Warmachine for the last 10 months of my life, which I guess is an indication of the state of the game these days. Either that, or I'm getting old:
Morvahna has approx. 5 boxes left after the feat and a crapload of fury. She has two transfer targets - a half dead Gorax and a Stalker about 13" away from her since she had moved so far back. I managed to kill the Gorax with the last 2 members of my blue Posse (who were now surrounded by Skinwalkers), triggering Warpath so my Spitter can walk up and throw the Stalker outside her control area. A Croak Hunter and Snapper then killed a model each to try and give Barnabas a wider charge lane (which proved futile in the end as Morvahna still gained the cover bonus from the obstacle so their activations were redundant), which Barnabas used to charge into a Gallow Grove to get a free Blood Boon Flesh Eater on Morvahna, needing 13s and rolled 6,5,2 to hit and killed her with boosted damage.
Barnabas - clutch as fuck.
I stole this game so bad, I expected police to be waiting outside to question me.
So I ruined Luke's tournament that he probably should have won by taking him out of the finals and turning him off eMorvahna. Good job, JS. Kingslaying like a boss.
14 CPs
Game 7 vs Trolls (Luke Harvey) - Scenario: Rallypoint
Faction: Hoarluk - Runes of War Points: 50/50 Tiers: 4 Hoarluk Doomshaper (*7pts) * Troll Axer (6pts) * Dire Troll Mauler (9pts) * Earthborn Dire Troll (10pts) * Mulg the Ancient (12pts) Krielstone Bearer and 5 Stone Scribes (4pts) * Krielstone Stone Scribe Elder (1pts) Trollkin Runeshapers (Leader and 2 Crew) (3pts) Trollkin Runeshapers (Leader and 2 Crew) (3pts) Trollkin Runeshapers (Leader and 2 Crew) (3pts) Trollkin Runeshapers (Leader and 2 Crew) (3pts) Janissa Stonetide (3pts)
Dat list.....
I was paired up to play against Chris Baker again for whatever reason, but managed to haggle with the TO to play someone I hadn't played that tournament since rankings were not at stake in either match-up. Fortunately for me, this person was Luke Harvey, a Troll player of legend with a very manly beard. He has yet to beat me in a tournament game, including a loss in a Who's the Boss event where I had Wrong Eye as my warlock, but this time he came prepared with this ridiculous pDoomshaper Runes of War tier.
Here is a summary of the design meeting for this tier list:
Privateer Employee A: "Hey, Troll players think Doomshaper sucks." Privateer Employee B: "Purification, Goad, Rampager, Fortune, that feat... what were we thinking designing this piece of crap? He does absolutely nothing against half the game!" A: "Totally. I think we should take a highly underrated unit with a crapload of rules and damage boxes and make a list that includes like... an unlimited number of them, but also reduce their cost by 25%." B: "Mmmm... that seems kinda OP. We should make it difficult to achieve by adding some rough tier requirements like 'must include Janyssa, two Dire Trolls and two units of Runeshapers'." A: "What? That is way too harsh! You better give them sweet bonuses like extra 2" deployment and some walls just in case they get shot. That Doomshaper is surely going to die even at DEF 17 ARM 17 with transfers and troll animi." B: "And Mulg too I guess. For lolz." A: "Mega lolz."
FU A and B. You guys are assholes.
Anyway, this list is pretty good. You can either lead with the Runeshapers or the beasts depending on who you want to take the hit. He led with the walls, because having 3 walls is fair. Usually I have zero problems with Trolls, but a swarm of cheap steady pathfinder guys with POW 14 crit KD AoEs and damage boxes is really problematic. To put Runeshapers in context, they basically get to cast a 3 cost magical AoE (more or less Baldur's Earth Spikes), along with good survivability, Tremor and Force Lock for 1 pt. That is really, really strong, and makes Gorgons look like absolute horse shit. It's almost enough to make me respect Trolls. Almost.
I traded Mulg for my Wrastler bottom of 2 (Rask shooting off animi + Fury + Boundless Charge + feat => dead Mulg and safe army), then jumped up to 3 CPs next turn through dominating his zone and mine (with the Effigy objective). I didn't any get more points after that as he just grinded into my Gators with POW 14 AoEs and made more toughs than I did, basically out-listing me. In the end I had lost every single model but Rask, and went for a list ditch assassination on Doomshaper which need like a 14 on 3 dice for damage, but failed.
Looking back I think I may have made one mistake, which was to use Wrong Eye to clear the enemy zone giving me 2CPs on turn 3, where I probably should have just kept him back and left those CPs on the table, since trading heavies is pretty much where the game is won/lost in this matchup. Especially since Doomshaper's feat was up and that put 12 or so damage on Wrong Eye in the end. If I can take out his heavies while keeping mine, then he will just deathclock himself since Luke is the NZ deathclock master. Next time.....
Luke also gave me his best sports vote (out of guilt, because I am actually a terrible person to play against since I question everything). I gave mine to Chris Baker on the futile hope that he will one day win best sports instead of best painted. I gave my best painted vote to Nikola, since I like the colour black. Everywhere. Some may call it primer, I call it grim minimalist art.
17 CPs
Tournament Total:4 wins, 3 losses, 17 CPs
with 2 very close losses and 2 very close wins. Also managed to beat the top 2 ranked players in the country :P
I placed in the upper half of tournament so I am happy with my play and placing despite the numbers, except for the first game of course.
The tournament final was Cryx on Cryx (both players named Dave), and was won by a Cryx player (coincidentally also named Dave, who is my blog's biggest fan) for the second year in a row. The shock, the horror, the surprise. OP faction whining aside, they are both top blokes who usually rank well and play really strong lists so congrats to them (for choosing the right faction, Cryx, which is OP, especially when your name is Dave).
Thanks to Dan Conlon for organizing and being super chill the whole time despite our whining about pairings and terrain and such. What a guy.
Thoughts + mini-rant zone
Still not a fan of Divide and Conquer but I can live with it over a long tournament. It's potentially a dealbreaker for factions with less depth like Mercs/Minions and barely relevant for Cryx, Legion and PoM. It worked out alright for me this time with the right matchups happening at the right time. The only time I would rather have dropped something else was in game 2, where I would rather play Rask vs Ret than Barnabas (and it turns out, I could have).
I have a bit more respect for the Maelok + 3 Posse list. Not so much because I think Maelok is necessarily stronger than Barnabas overall, but because Undead is a really strong buff. I was reminded over the weekend how many abilities trigger off living only. It's a bit ridiculous at times. Bring more Witch Doctors.
Rask with 3 Posse is stronger against Trolls I feel, but Rask with WE + Snapjaw is stronger against PoM, Skorne, Cygnar, Khador...
F*ck Cryx, that faction is so stupid. Nobody even defends this anymore, and instead of fixing the many broken things, PP just go passive aggressive and stop releasing Cryx models for a year and a half. That'll teach them!
Broken 2pt merc solos need some serious balance work. Gorman, Piper and Witch Doc Croc were my bane this time around, but they are just the tip of the iceberg. OP Merc stuff is a large contributing factor to lists getting stale as options just get sidelined and make balancing the game a lot more difficult. Remember how bad Cygnar was pre-Stormwall when they actually used Cygnar models?
Whoever came up with spam tier lists (the ones that combine FA:U on already good units with point discounts) is either a dumbass who has made a grievous error, or a clever businessman who understands pewtercrack addiction at a fundamental level.
eMorvahna - demoralizing to play against. It's not so much the feat or all the healing - while it is an insanely powerful timewalk feat like eHaley's or Deneghra's, it's that she does all that while rerolling everything and being miles away. Fits the OP formula of 'why does X Cryx model have Y ability'.
I really dislike Rally Point as a scenario. I am guessing it was included here purely for the name. Movable or cutesy objective-based scenarios become a distraction rather than an addition to the game most of the time. The purpose of a scenario is to force engagement. That is it. I like most of the Masters scenarios (with the exception of Destruction because that one is just a huge clusterfuck).
