Monday, June 22, 2015

Rot 'n' Roll Presents - Faction Power Rankings: A Completely Original Production

1. Cryx - this faction is overflowing with BS. I mean, who designs this crap? Jason Soles - that's who. Following the MkII Field Test cycle, where Cryx players cried so hard you would think that PP had just backed over their pet dog, Cryx has been dominating the game of Warmahordes with their retardedly powerful casters, ridiculously overpowered spammable infantry, and a slow stream of releases with stat cards that have more text than the Magna Carta. This only goes to prove an Axiom of Games Design (and customer service in general) - if you complain really, really loudly, you will get what you want eventually.

2. Circle Orboros - it's like Cryx, but with heavies. If you love Stalkers and Goraxes, you will love Circle. These days, you also have to love Wolds and Sentry Stones. Yay! Breaking into Mk2 with the above mentioned Stalker/Gorax combo (usually piloted by Kromac), it's been Circle Christmas ever since, with a chunk of super top-notch releases holding them at the front of the pack and providing radically different playstyle options. Despite having their entire faction nerfed via a minor change to Shifting Stones, they still do everything they have ever wanted to do, in new and unexpected ways.

3. Trollbloods - you know a faction has made it when you read threads complaining about one of their units being so awesome it invalidates another one of their also really good units. That, and MAT 11 troops. The main strengths of Trollbloods are:
a) the faction looks unremarkably crap and unexciting on paper while actually being super synergistic and complex on the table, so nobody suspects them (let alone their own player base), and
b) being beloved by the Theme Force God. First Runes of War, and then Evolutionary Elementalism. Points reduction up the wazoo without giving up much. They take a while to get popular because you have to spend several hundred dollars to run them, but then you can run them for like 4 years straight because they are so fundamentally good (kinda like Gators).
No matter how much they win, their players will never let you forget that the Mountain King is and always will be MAT 5. Also, Warders.

4. Legion of Everblight - Legion is like Cryx except with a soul, which is ironic given the Soulless rule on most of their beasts. Legion was insanely good in Mk1 and then nerfed into the ground when  Mk2. This statement, combined with Legion's high placing, lets you know how stupidly strong Legion was in Mk1, when Flight ignored free strikes and AD was 12" (amongst other things).
The best design decision about Legion is that while most of their warrior models are butt-ugly elves, these never actually have to put on the table since their entire faction revolves around sexy leather-clad female warlocks handling multiple giant dragon beasts that spew hot liquids all over the place. Well played, PP.

5. Cygnar - the natural enemy of Cryx, Cygnar has really come into its own since discovering that it is much more efficient to let their national army sit at home and pay Mercenaries to do the work. Carried to great heights by the power of plot armour, Cygnar's godlike casters lead their mighty warjack (singular) to blow everything up with Big Guns and POW12 placable AoE templates while simultaneously contesting every scenario zone on the table. Meanwhile, their paid lackeys take the bullets.

6. Protectorate of Menoth - the faction that never seems to get good releases, except for almost every book. Almost everything they do is frustrating as hell for their opponents and seems undercosted, yet somehow Protectorate players derive no enjoyment from this. This puzzles me tremendously.
PoM is the home of Purification, which as we know breaks the game and hearts and minds everywhere. Despite this, it's not enough to push this faction further up the rankings since when you break it all down, it's a pretty honest faction that requires skill to play (except Harbinger, which requires Tough rolls).

7. Mercenaries - the name is a bit of a misnomer. This faction should really be called "The Earthbreaker and Galleon Ultimate Tag Team Extravaganza", because their Colossals carry them harder than Bryan Cranston carried the first 20 minutes of Godzilla. Unfortunately for Mercs, without the Colossals, the Merc faction is a bit more like the rest of that craptacular film. Having said that, those Colossals are legit as hell (just like Bryan).

8. Skorne - once a Cryx-style infantry spammer in Mk1, then a PoM-style heavy buffing faction in early Mk2, Skorne is now also a Troll-style bastion of medium-based infantry spam. The Skorne Empire has had good showings in tournaments worldwide under the dual leadership of Supreme Grand Master Ultimate Champion Dominar Molik Karn, First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, and Lord Tyrant Martin Hornacek, the Slovak Scourge of Central Europe. Unfortunately, if neither of these two are on the table, then Skorne is a little.... scorned?

9. Khador - the true combined arms faction, Khador's speciality is in its PR. With the image of big stompy robots and its catchy "For The Motherland!" campaign, the reality of Khador is that there isn't much more than the peasant rabble of small-based infantry and some superhuman warcasters. It's like Cryx, but everyone is just waiting to die so they can come back as a Bane or Lich Lord and be better for less. Except Orsus, because Toruk is (understandably) afraid of Orsus. Their lack of an explosive tournament presence may be because they put all their best warriors in steam-powered armor suits, which to the best of my knowledge they use to heat houses rather than fight wars.

10. Retribution - elves in space suits, basically. In a game that's all about playing like you have a pair, a faction full of eunuchs is going to be at a disadvantage. They like to be suave and dance around, but lack the staying power to really stick it out and fight in the middle of the table, which is what many games come down to. This might be changing soon, as the Elf people slowly realize that they can build large robots that don't die to 2 Gatormans.

11. Convergence - arguably the faction that relies more on efficient list design and good play decisions that any other, Convergence's single biggest sin is being a limited release and thus not stimulating the nerd brain sufficiently. This leads them to being forgotten and cast aside despite being pretty legit and having one of the single most baller warcasters in the game in Lucant and very few (if any) "bad" models. I suppose having a shallower bench might also have something to do with their low ranking.

12. Minions - it's times like these that Gators are sad to be packaged together with Pigmans in this faction. Gators have been played and ranked well in high-profile tournaments all over the world thanks to an amazing core unit and some crazy strong warlocks, but unfortunately the design disaster that is Pigs drags Minions to the bottom of the pile like the deadweight on Jaga's spell card. Seriously, why are Pigs beasts so crap? I do not understand.

Now backed by science:


totes srs post (c) 2015

Thanks to the Astra Gaming Team

Thursday, June 18, 2015

First Minions Podcast

Tired of having your faction of choice (or circumstance) dismissed out of hand on every Warmahordes podcast, blog, forum?

Did you as a Ret player live through the experience of continuously losing to Rask, only to have your experience denigrated by your fellow elves?

Do you love playing highly limited and highly restrictive forces, and/or building deep affections for crappy warlocks and models?

Do you like playing the game on hard mode, and/or sexy Swedish accents?

If you answered yes to any of the above, do we have something for you!

A Matter of Pact is an all Minions, all the time podcast that will satisfy these forbidden urges, and more. The only downside is that it will make you want to buy Pig models.

First episode features discussion of the Efaarit Scouts, Gobber Raiders and Croak Raiders. Check it out.

Friday, June 5, 2015

Croak Raiders spoiler + Raider Gobbers

Here are the cards.

PC: 5/8, FA:?

Thank goodness they have Vitriol!


On the Croak Raiders: 
  • The Oil rule is ok in Blindwater and situationally very good for non-Minion armies that have a lot of fire, like certain present and future Legion/Skorne/Troll builds. You take a min unit, deploy them somewhere safe, and bring out the Oil Gourds when it's damage time.
    For Blindwater, given that (to my knowledge) we have zero fire-based attacks, the Gourd bomb only synergizes with the unit, which is alright at RNG 8. It basically allows them to do some work against heavier targets. Boosted POW 12 + continuous fire is no joke.
  • The most important stats are RAT 6, RNG 10, POW 12 on the darts. That is very good for a ranged unit. Throw in auto-fire, and situationally allowing for boosted damage rolls, and you're looking at a pretty good unit.
  • The rest of their card is mediocre or mostly meaningless - their defensive stats are average, Gang is more of a Croak fluff rule than anything given their melee stats, and Vitriol doesn't mean much since they will die to almost any melee attack in the game. It has "fun" potential with Zombify so they can make tough rolls and then your opponent rages and then you crank out your skill and make 4 more tough rolls and deny your opponent a scenario point, kill his unit with Corrosion next turn, then win on scenario. You can all have so much fun with Tough. Thanks, Soles.
  • Advance Deploy allows you to position them where you want - I think most of the time that will be behind your Gator wall so they don't get AoE-ed or shot to death by POW 10s.
  • In terms of caster synergies:
    - Obviously they go great with Barnabas on account of Swamp Pits and his feat. Potent infantry clearing and assassination potential, plus the ability to protect them from getting shot by low POW guns - you can cluster them around a Spitter so they don't die to blast damage while in there!
    - Rask always loves guns since he can play very cagey if he wants.
    - Maelok doesn't get a whole lot out of them.
    - Jaga likes everything so she can make them work - Spellpiercer makes everything sing. The only danger is them getting shot up, but that's a problem Jaga's infantry has in general.
    - Calaban brings Parasite. That's boosted POW 15s at range, which in theory sounds amazing but then again it is Calaban so I won't wrack my brain too hard trying to make it work.
  • Overall, pretty cool. I look forward to playtesting them in the far future when I play again.

On the River Gobbers:
  •  The range on the guns seems too short for them to be an AD jamming unit. 12" (+base size) threat range with low stats isn't fantastic. Also too short to be a shooting unit. No - this unit is all about the Reeled In and Weaken rules.
  • To me, it seems they would be useful as a backline, late game unit. You keep them back doing nothing, and then when things start dying and lines engaged, you shoot your harpoon through a tiny gap and block a charge lane. Or you could just charge a target for the -2STR and -2DEF debuff, which gets really significant in a grind game.
  • The positioning options are also interesting, since you can do things like hit a Colossal and place the Gobber in its back arc to tie up something else. That gives quite a lot of flexibility.
  • If they were a unit, they would be great with Barnabas due to Iron Flesh late game. A DEF 17 Gobber in melee is hard to displace. I guess even on one model it could be worth it in the right situation. Apart from that, I can't think of any specific caster synergies (it is after all 4am).
  • 2pts for 3 isn't an optimal price point (1pt for 2 would be better I think) but it's not terrible.
  • Overall, a neat 2pt filler that isn't much worse or better than our current 2pt fillers (Pendrake, Croak Hunters).

Thursday, June 4, 2015

Meta Evolution - Mk2

Fluid History in Action!

With a new release cycle quickly approaching, I am reminded of the empy feeling of the past few months regarding how the meta has been 'figured out', lists are boring, etc. etc. And to a large extent, this is true - given enough time, player communities will figure out the optimal way to play within an assymetrically balanced system. In a well designed game, these won't be anywhere near 100% win lists and playstyles, but they will be better than their alternatives a (statistically) significant portion of the time. And that is what is referred to as a 'dead' meta game.

The point of this article is to demonstrate that although the metashifts in Warmahordes are ridiculously slow in comparison to most assymetrical PvP games (like RTS, MOBAs, TCGs/CCGs, etc.) there have actually been some sizable shifts over the last decade. The current meta of boxes + ARM spam will likely be around for another few years before a new release or new edition resets the cycle and pushes us once against towards a variant on solo machine (which we have some evidence of in Khador/Cygnar already with certain popular Sorscha1 and Haley2 lists).

Personally, I think more aggressive buff errata between expansion releases would promote metagame activity suitably without requiring the release of new models, but such opinions have been thrown around for years with no show of PP doing anything  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As I remember things:

Mark 1

The biggest meta factors about Mk1:
  • Jacks were really bad on average. Most warjacks had -1MAT and RAT compared to their current versions, and were scrapped when they lost 3 systems (the blank parts of the grid counted as the 'hull' system). Each faction had a small handful of jacks that got played. Armor was thus much less of a problem and most infantry could scrap jacks thanks to the charge mechanic. Non-character jacks were more or less out of the competitive game after Escalation, with the exception of arc nodes and ranged assassinations.
  • Cavalry had more damage boxes and cost relatively less than now, so they were the 'tanks' of Warmachine.
  • As Mk1 went on, more and more ridiculously overpowered solos were released, pushing the game towards 'solomachine'.
  • Assassination was the most common victory condition by far. Scenario play developed really slowly - in fact the early Steamrollers were considered so bad that Hacksaw (a prolific PG at the time) ended up making his own format called "Jackhammer" that got popular before being absorbed into Steamroller.
  • For a quick summary of Hordes, which had far fewer releases than Warmachine in its early stages and therefore didn't have much of a meta influence:
    • Trolls were pretty bad (Defining list: Madrak1 brick),
    • Skorne was pretty bad (Defining list: Hexeris1 infantry, Canoneers, Ancestral Guardians),
    • Circle was good (Defining list: Tharn Bloodtrackers, Wolf Riders and Woldwardens)
    • Legion was amazing (Defining list: Seraph Spam).
    This only changed with the last Mk1 Hordes book where Skorne became insane overnight and Trolls became good, Circle stayed about as strong and Legion got even better.

Defining Lists

The most powerful tournament list in Mk1 Prime was Sorscha1 assassition with Destroyers, with a secondary win condition of scenario. It was very difficult to stop the assassination since her feat initially did not require LoS, and difficult to stop the scenario win because 12" AD Doom Reavers + Widowmakers would get in your face insanely fast.

Following that with the release of Escalation, the counter to Sorscha was released in the format of Goreshade1, who had Mage Blight to stop her feating, Mk1 Cloak of Shadows made him nigh invulnerable, and he had a super-potent assassination in the form of Soul Gate (the jack used to be able to attack after teleporting).

Apotheosis brought us epic casters (restricted to 750pt games or more, equivalent to 50pt games today) and character jacks. These were actually used somewhat regularly since they were ridiculously strong (Deathjack especially). I seem to recall all the casters in the book having a lot of pull on the meta and really pushed up the power level in the game.

Of particular interest were Old Witch and Vlad2, which came to completely dominate Khador lists until the end of Mk1 and the game in general. Both had crazy good assassination game in combination with Khador's bonkers solos and units like Widowmakers and Manhunters. The fastest kill in Hardcore Mk1 was Vlad2 + Eyriss1 + 4 Widowmakers killing a caster in under 2? minutes. Vlad's feat was not only +3 to all stats but also extra attack per weapon and boosted attack and damage rolls with ALL attacks (including range).
The Old Witch's feat was extremely strong in a troop spam meta, and could be centered on Scrapjack rather than herself, which means she would usually pin you down in your deployment turn 1 and laugh.

Superiority brought us cavalry, which more or less replaced non-character warjacks entirely since they were both resilient and hit hard - and they were fast. This included the 'Flying Pegasus' Drakhun which catapulted the Vlad2 assassination game into the stratosphere, since it would get thrown then charge an effective 127,693" to kill you before you moved anything. I started playing around this time - it was neat as a noob to try to play warjacks in this environment.

The end of Mk1 brought the Legends book, which was basically full of ridiculously overpowered stuff for everyone, so much so that it's not even worth discussing the meta at the time. The game was really broken and started to feel a lot like 1-turn instakill Legacy Magic: the Gathering decks. Fortunately, Mk2 came out pretty soon after.

Mark 2

Mk2 released 2010, with Field and Play Test Cycles about half a year before that. The Field Test meta was heavy on Gun Mages (Cygnar), Winterguard deathstar (Khador), Stalker spam (Cryx) and good old jack spam (PoM). The Deathstar was slightly nerfed (the Rocketeers had boosted damage rolls) and Stalkers were bumped up to 4pts in final release. People also really liked Skarre2 during the Field Test, mostly because most games were at smaller points levels.
The Hordes Play Test was a bit too all over the place and disorganized to really say anything was popular for long.

Once actual release hit, Khador high DEF spam and Cryx infantry spam became predominant meta leaders on the Warmachine side, on the Hordes side you had Troll infantry spam and Skorne's Holy Trinity (Molik/Gladiator/Bronzeback). Things changed a bit with the Faction books, where Circle got the Warpwolf Stalker and all their lists suddenly became concentrated around Stalker/Gorax/Teleport combos, whereas Legion got Ravagores which basically replaced Seraphs in the Mk1 beast-heavy playstyle.

Wrath was a mostly uneventful book all things considered. Most of the releases were on the weak side and not super exciting, with the exception of Retribution which got a new jack chassis and Ossyan.
Domination was a better book than Wrath but not by a significant marging, although quite a few things in the book (ie. Grissel2) would become very relevant with later releases. Circle got Ghetorix and Gallows Groves, Skorne started developping a ranged game and got Hexeris2 to deal with high DEF (he was more or less the only answer at the time). Legion got Vayl2 and Nagas of course. Gators started to become a bit more legit with Maelok and the Witch Doctor presenting an exceptionally tanky list (like a Dead Meat Mountain).

Colossals changed the meta quite a bit in presenting MOAR BOXES and anti-infantry options (primarily Stormwall template and 2d3 shots) to compete with MOAR BANEZ, although this did take a while to kick in.

Gargantuans was a big meta shaker, and not really for the Gargantuans themselves which were mostly bad with the exception of the Mammoth. Trolls got Warders which radically boosted their tankability to above the meta average at the time, Circle got Morvahna2 and the Warpborn Alpha (which made Skinwalkers about as good as Gatormans) to get into the grindy attrition game, and Skorne got Incindiarii to help deal with high DEF and a stellar support solo in the Willbreaker. Legion only really got the Warspear Chieftain to make Warspears a really solid unit, but otherwise just stuck to their game plan of multiple OP heavies + support. Minions of course got Rask, which boosted Gators to an almost fully competitive level.

Vengeance had some good to great releases for all factions, but didn't push the meta too much away from what started in Colossals. Cygnar got Tempest Blazers which brought back Gun Mages in a new form but otherwise mostly stuck to their gameplans. Khador got Butcher3, the IF Kovnik and Greylord Outriders which all got a lot of play and brought Khador back into the meta following their impotence at the loss of Iron Flesh infantry. Cryx got some good tanky cav in Bane Riders and Goreshade3 which FINALLY shook their core unit choices up a tiny bit (mostly because Cryx players started to get bored I think). Retribution again got more good releases that they use in full capacity.

Exigence was similar to Vengeance in that it had some good solid releases for all factions - arguably the best expansion PP has released so far. Even Pigs got something decent! I don't think it's led to any real meta shifts yet, but I think a lot of the releases in there certainly lay the seed for a change in faction playstyles.

Faction specific notes:

  • In Mk1, pHaley with Trenchers was also "unbeatable", due to smoke wall denying guns and TB stopping charges AS SOON AS YOU ENTERED THE CONTROL AREA. Trenchers were really good in Mk1 because they didn't stand in the cloud they generated so you couldn't just charge/shoot them and their victim stats.
  • I remember the Darius jack spam list was really popular, primarily because his feat allowed you to repair wrecks back to full-health. Plus his little bomb dudes were even better and his gun was also pretty baller. 
  • Aside from that you had the usual power casters, the ever present Junior, and cavalry.
  • During the Mk2 Field Test, Cygnar players quickly went hard for Stryker2/Caine2/Haley2, which persists to this day. Gun Mages and Rangers were both super prevalent from the Field Test onwards and slowly phase out as Stormwall and merc supports takes over in the heavier ARM meta.
  • Cygnar is now a top faction due to very powerful casters, Stormwalls and a huge range of quality mercs.

  • PoM was really different in Mk1, namely that it loved to spam infantry (more than other factions, although everyone loved infantry spam). The early meta featured melee infantry aplenty combined with Rhupert (granted Boundless Charge at the time) and spell assassination. 
  • Soul collection was also cool since you could kill your own guys for souls. 
  • The one biggest change I recall was that the Testament of Menoth was considered a top caster after he was released, because he was so good at assassination (especially with Vengers). 
  • Harbinger was also really strong because of 20" Martyrdom, working well with Vengers and other invincible Protectorate models.
  • The omnipresent models were Vilmon and Idrians. Vilmon could run + Impervious Wall and used to deal way more damage, whereas Idrians could shoot most of your army of the board turn 1 and then had countercharge on the ENTIRE UNIT. Balance.
  • Overall, PoM has remained a strong faction throughout its entire existence, although has never really been considered the single best faction in the game.

  •  Khador has been a meta defining faction for most of the existence of the game, from Sorscha1 to Vlad2 to Iron Flesh infantry. Ironically, this has only ceased to be the case with the Colossals ARM meta, where you think Khador ARM would do real well. It doesn't because although Khador has above average base stats, they have poor ARM buffing abilities and their medium infantry is not points efficient or synergistic compared to most other factions.

  • The principle Cryx game plan in Mk1 was sneaky assassination, often by spells through dirt cheap bone chickens or warjack. Mk1's top casters were Denny1+2 and the Coven. 
  • EDIT: The one list that was also quite popular in terms of dudespam was 30 Bane Knights, especially with pSkarre, since Bane Knights were riduculously overpowered AND undercosted.
  • This is vastly different to the grindy attrition playstyle of Cryx in Mk2, and Cryx players bitched like hell during the Field Test until they realized that Banes and Satyxis as OP as shit and spam that with their casters.
  • Lich2 soon became considered best caster in the game and is nerfed repeatedly until he's only one of the "top 5" rather than clearly the best. McThralls also become more prevalent over time since infantry becomes easier to kill and Cryx doesn't really care about quality stats, just getting attacks.
  • Just recently after 4ish years of infantry spam, Cryx players are moving towards using slighty different lists with casters like Goreshade3 and Body and Soul (a whole new host of bullshit).

  • Barely a faction in Mk1. Pretty much how people treated Minions until Rask came out.
  • In Mk2, they remain pretty insignificant until Colossals come out. Then they start stomping on people's nuts. But it's really all about the Colossals at the moment and for the forseeable future.

  • Mk1: Non existence.
  • Mk2: LUCANT HAS PURIFICATION. Also he grinds well and suits the current meta. The Axis theme is also gaining a lot of traction as CoC players acquire enough models to pull it off with its crazy level of recursion/attrition. Perhaps such lists, combined with Cryx' domination of the meta and love of souls, will bring the Testament of Menoth and his Omegus back in some capacity?
  • Came out at the very end of Mk1, barely enough to get tournament play.
  • Early in Mk2, the gameplan revolved almost entirely around Mage Hunter Strike Force and Mage Hunter Assassin assassinations via things like Ravyn's Snipe-Feat-Go or Rahn being Rahn. As such they were quite weak against Hordes and weak against attrition.
  •  The release of Ossyan and the second jack chassis gave Ret more of an attrition backbone.
  • With the release of Imperatus, Hyperion, Houseguard Thane and Eyriss3, Retribution have gotten a lot more competent in scenario play and Hordes assassination. IMO one of the most balanced and well-rounded factions in the game despite being elves.



  •  In Mk1, Trolls were mostly based around the Madrak Sure Foot brick with Champions, and didn't do that great in assassination nor scenario play. As such, they were maligned in the competitive scene, at least until the release of unkillable Madrak2 and beast zerger Hoarluk2.
  • Following the Mk2 Play Test, Trolls were strong out of the game with variations on troop spams under various casters (Madrak1+2 especially). 
  • After about a year of that, Trolls became considered crappy again in the "high DEF or Cryx" meta until Jason Flanzer showed up on the tournament scene with Runes of War and started winning a lot of high profile events.
  • Runes of War then became the "only good Troll list" and the whinier Troll players bitched about that and the Mountain King for a while, while the more positive Troll players just paired it with Grim1 for the Cryx matchup and did quite well.
  • Warders then came out and contributed to the Meat Mountain meta we are currently within, specifically lots of high ARM and high box infantry (or equivalent, as is the case with the recently popular Elemental Mastery list).


  • Very assassination focused in Mk1, sort of like the Hordes version of Cryx. They had lots of movement tricks like Shifting Stones, but even more so - for example, Blackclad Wayfarers were also much more mobile and annoying than currently (Phase Jump was place ANYWHERE ON THE TABLE). Woldwardens were the most common beast by far (spamming spells, another thing Mk1 Circle did really well), Druids and Tharn Wolf Riders (who did not need to keep formation) were also very common. Also Sentry Stones were sickening - they did everything they do now except cheaper at bigger ranges with more resources.
  • In Mk2, Circle was a bit poop early on while adjusting to all their favourite stuff getting super nerfed but then quickly got Stalkers, which changed every list into Stalker/Gorax delivery systems. And they did well for a long time with it.
  • Just as this list became less effective with heavier ARM and more boxes appearing, Morvahna2 is released to give Circle a ridiculous grind/assassination game. PP then decides she isn't enough and decides to release the Bradigus theme force. Yay.


  • They were considered uncompetitive in Mk1 but had a very different game plan to now. They were based around 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' type of punishment mechanics. The most common build was Hexeris1 due to Death March being RIDICULOUSLY overpowered (instant trigger + fully boosted attacks) and feeding souls to Ancestral Guardians who basically 2 shot anything in the game at the time given enough souls.
  • At the end of Mk2 were considered possibly the best faction in the game thanks to Molik Karn, Morghoul2 and Makeda2.
  •  Radically changing from an infantry spam faction in Mk1 to a beast heavy army in Mk2, Skorne were considered quite strong early in Mk2 following player adjustment, thanks to the Holy Trinity of Molik, Gladiator, Bronzeback killing everything with Makeda2. 
  • Once people got used to the Molik bullet and Purification became a popular way to deal the Krea's animus, Skorne fell by the wayside a bit until it was recently revived with the use of medium infantry (thanks to the release of Incindiarii and their benefit to the Fist of Halaak list) and hopefully also by the range-resistant Scarab beasts


  • Mk1: Top faction, thanks to two factors: first is that Flight gave immunity to free strikes so the beasts just shat on everything and could do whatever they wanted as long as you had even a basic grasp of estimating distances, and second is that AD used to be 12" rather than 6", causing ranged infantry Legion to have a very brutal ranged attrition game from Turn 1.
  • Mk2: While the nerfs were strong and the rage stronger, Legion are still a top dog in Mk2 and have been the whole time. The gameplan has changed a little bit since Ravagores were released to replace Seraphs and their infantry nerfed quite a bit, so the focus is more or less exclusively on beast heavy lists. However the caster and army support for the beasts is so good that good players always seem to make it work, and they get enough interesting things here and there to flavour what is essentially the same list core for the last 5 years.


  • Mk1: Didn't exist as a faction.
  • Mk2: No real meta respect at all until Rask came out, although triple Posse was still a scary list (especially with Maelok). I'd say at this stage, post Rask and definitely post Sacral Vault, Minions (really, Gators) are a competitive faction. Pigs by themselves aren't there yet but with Carver and Arkadius tier, you can make a good 2nd or 3rd tournament Minions pairing that deals with certain matchups were Gators don't excel.